The Big Whale: Paymium has just presented a brand new strategy, if we had to sum it up where would we start?
Alexandre Stachtchenko: If the audience is rather professional, I think we would focus on several points, particularly the stablecoin part and the launch of a new offering, backed by resources commensurate with our ambitions. This includes the appointment of Thierry Lobjois, a leading figure in traditional finance with a career in France, Luxembourg and Switzerland. This reflects a certain transition between traditional finance and the finance of tomorrow.
But there are other key messages too, such as a refocusing on our values. There is also a youth offering that we are the first to propose. This caters for two audiences: on the one hand, committed bitcoiners who are getting older (Bitcoin has been around for 15 years now) and, on the other, young people who are increasingly interested in cryptos. In fact, at a recent event at the Patrimonia trade show, without even announcing it, around 10% of participants spontaneously asked me for this offer.
We have also found that young people are naturally interested in crypto. According to a study by ADAN, KPMG and Ipsos , 30% of young people aged between 18 and 25 owned cryptos. The further down the age pyramid you go, the higher the adoption, and this continues to increase over time. It's become a real social topic, accentuated by events such as COVID, inflation, and young people's interest in financial investments.
When you took up your post, some criticism was expressed about Paymium. If you had to summarise these criticisms, what would be the points most often raised?
The three main criticisms related to accessibility, inactivity fees, and the BCIO token. Firstly, on accessibility, many users found the platform complex and difficult to use. As soon as I arrived, I realised that we needed not only to make the platform more intuitive, but also to strengthen our communication on our core values. We undertook an in-depth review to define who we are as a company and what we will not compromise on. Our mission is financial empowerment via Bitcoin, and while we offer other cryptocurrencies, they must be consistent with this goal. We've also taken steps to add features like stablecoins to meet user expectations.
Then, the issue of inactivity fees was a concern. Many of our users didn't understand why these fees existed. We listened to this feedback and decided to remove them, bringing Paymium in line with market practice. Although these fees represented a source of revenue for us, we made the choice to remove them to improve the customer experience and show that we are listening to our community.
The third point concerns the BCIO token. There was some criticism about the management of this token, particularly its valuation. We have taken steps to ensure that no one is harmed by reintroducing a token price that is higher than the maximum price at which it was purchased, even taking inflation into account (it will pay transaction fees at 85 cents per token, editor's note). This enables us to meet our commitments to our users. However, as part of our refocusing on Bitcoin, we have decided not to relaunch the BCIO token as a development axis for the future. We are focused on building a clear strategy, centred on Bitcoin, and do not wish to disperse ourselves with projects that no longer correspond to our current vision.
"It's a source of revenue that we've decided to remove to show that Paymium is evolving" Will the removal of inactivity fees result in a loss of revenue for Paymium?
Yes, there will be a financial impact, that's undeniable. But it's more important for us to meet our users' expectations and show that we've listened to their feedback. Removing these fees sends out a strong signal. It's not a small change: it's a revenue stream that we've decided to remove to show that Paymium is evolving.
It also shows that what you knew about Paymium before, and the reasons why some users left us, no longer exist. We have made this financial effort to prove that we are now at the level of the market. Admittedly, this represents a sacrifice, but Paymium is solid and we have the shoulders to support this transition.
Does this mean that management or custody fees will increase for institutional investors?
No, not necessarily. What we're doing away with here are inactivity charges, which concerned users who didn't connect for several years. For institutions, conservation is a different service, and we are exploring how we can develop this offering. We recently recruited Thierry Lobjois, who is very familiar with the needs of this customer base, and we are drawing on his expertise to structure a tailored offering.
Curation seems to be a more logical model for us, as it is better aligned with our values and long-term strategy. It fits with our mission to encourage long-term savings with Bitcoin. We want to encourage institutional investors to take a sustainable investment approach, rather than encouraging them to speculate all the time.
This is not to say that trading is bad - we are an exchange platform, after all - but the alignment between a curated model and our values is more obvious than one based on trading volume. We already have projects in the pipeline for the coming months, including collaborations with other entities, which could involve a different model depending on market needs.
You mentioned an offering aimed at young people, that's a unique approach. Can you tell us more about how it will work?
The idea behind this offer is to create a form of passbook, although it's not a traditional passbook with a guaranteed return. In practical terms, a parent will be able to open a Paymium account and create a sub-account dedicated to their child. This sub-account will legally belong to the child, but the parent will retain management of it, as is the case with other types of child account in the traditional banking system.
The parent will have to provide legal documents, such as the family record book, to prove the parent-child relationship. Once this sub-account has been created, it will be legally protected and will belong to the child. But it is the parent who will decide how to fund the account. They can contribute Bitcoin regularly, weekly or monthly, or simply on the occasion of events such as Christmas or birthdays.
We are thus offering a secure, regulated and legally supervised framework, so that parents can introduce their children to Bitcoin savings, while remaining under their control. We do not interfere in family decisions, but provide the infrastructure for this to be done responsibly.
Initially, this offering will focus primarily on Bitcoin, as this is the asset that makes the most sense from a long-term savings perspective. However, we will leave open the possibility of investing in other cryptocurrencies, such as ether or stablecoins, depending on parents' needs. But our communication will remain focused on Bitcoin, because we believe it is the most relevant option for young people.
You have recruited Thierry Lobjois, an expert in the traditional financial sector. What will his mission be at Paymium and why do you think Paymium has what it takes to win over this institutional target?
Thierry Lobjois has joined Paymium to head up our institutional offering. He knows this market inside out, having worked on structured products at prestigious financial institutions such as Société Générale, BNP Paribas and Crédit Agricole. He has an extensive network and in-depth knowledge of the architecture of traditional financial products.
His mission at Paymium will be to articulate the needs of institutional clients and develop a product offering aligned with those needs. He will act as a bridge between traditional finance and the world of Bitcoin. Thanks to his expertise, he will be able to formulate an offering that meets institutional requirements in terms of security, regulation and asset management.
His arrival is strategic for us, as it strengthens our credibility with institutional clients. Paymium is a long-established, regulated player based in France, which gives us a competitive advantage over other international platforms. We have a solid infrastructure, local expertise and strict regulation, all of which are essential for financial institutions when considering working with a player in the Bitcoin space.
"We have yet to determine whether institutional investors will be prepared to gain direct exposure to Bitcoin by holding it themselves, or whether they will prefer to go through structured products, such as ETFs or ETPs" How do you intend to attract them to a market where simpler products such as ETPs already exist?
This is indeed a key question. Today, we don't talk to institutional investors by simply selling them crypto, we talk to them specifically about Bitcoin. Bitcoin is seen by many as a long-term savings solution, a means of portfolio diversification and a high-performance asset. We rely on reports from major players such as BlackRock who recognise Bitcoin as a diversification asset, which makes our pitch much easier.
That said, we have yet to determine whether institutional investors will be prepared to gain direct exposure to Bitcoin by holding it themselves, or whether they will prefer to go through structured products, such as ETFs or ETPs.
In Europe, we already have similar products, such as ETPs from CoinShares or 21Shares, but there are no ETFs yet that are truly equivalent to those available in the US. So we need to analyse demand and see what the market prefers.
Ideally, we'd like to promote direct ownership of Bitcoin, particularly with solutions like self-custody for institutional investors. Some finance departments, particularly those of large CAC 40 groups, might be interested in direct management of their digital assets. For others, this will not be as important, and they will prefer to go through more traditional products.
We remain flexible and will adapt our offering according to market feedback. If institutional investors prefer to use structured products, we will adapt to that, while remaining aligned with our values. If this were to happen, we would favour partnerships with European players, as we did for Société Générale's stablecoin.
You mentioned Société Générale's EURCV stablecoin, which is now integrated into Paymium. Why did you choose this stablecoin rather than Circle's EURC, which seems more liquid and integrated?
The choice of Societe Generale's EURCV reflects our commitment to French and European sovereignty. We have made the deliberate choice to work with a regulated player in France, because it corresponds to our values of decentralisation and independence.
This does not mean that we are totally excluding Circle's EURC. We are in dialogue with them, and if demand for this stablecoin is strong, we may add it to our offering. But for the time being, we have favoured EURCV to remain consistent with our strategy of supporting local and regulated players.
We are aware that EURCV is not yet as well integrated as other stablecoins, but this is a gamble we are taking on the future. If this choice proves to be an obstacle in the long term, we will adjust our strategy accordingly. For now, it is essential for us to support a euro stablecoin regulated by a French player, as this corresponds to our principles of financial sovereignty.
"Daily volumes on Paymium are around $250,000" You recently acquired the small French exchange Zebitex, how did this acquisition go and what are the terms?
The acquisition of Zebitex is part of our strategy to consolidate the French market. Zebitex was an exchange, albeit a small one, like Paymium. Rather than maintaining two small competing platforms, we have chosen to merge our strengths to offer a credible alternative to the major international platforms.
The terms of the acquisition are simple: we have taken over Zebitex's assets and customers. The transition went smoothly, and we informed Zebitex customers over a month ago that their assets would be transferred to Paymium. This process has been completed without any major problems.
The message we are sending out with this acquisition is twofold. Firstly, we are affirming our ambition to be the benchmark marketplace in France. Secondly, we are appealing to other market players: if you think you cannot comply with MiCA regulations, let's talk. We believe in unity and we think that by working together, we can build a solid and sustainable player for the French market.
What are the volumes of activity on Paymium?
Today, daily volumes on Paymium are around $250,000. It's true that this figure may seem modest, but it's important to note that we saw a significant increase in volumes in the first half of 2024. We have already achieved as much volume in this period as we did in the whole of the previous year.
Our aim is to continue to increase these volumes, and we are convinced that we can do so. One of Paymium's key strengths is that we are a marketplace, not a broker. This means that we have a market infrastructure that allows us to offer much more competitive rates than brokers.
To give an example, if you place an order for €10,000 on Paymium, you will have fees of just 0.6%, and even 0.4% if you are maker . By comparison, traditional fees at a broker are typically 1.5% to 3%. This gives us a significant competitive advantage, which is why it would be suicidal for us to abandon this model and become a mere broker.
That said, we have to be realistic. It's easier to operate as a broker, because it involves listing tokens that are already available elsewhere, without having to create our own marketplace. But that's not our vision. If we became a broker, we would lose our independence and become dependent on external players to provide liquidity.
We have therefore made the choice to be an independent marketplace, with volumes that we hope to increase gradually. Our ambition is to get back to 2021 levels, when we were trading between $1 million and $2 million a day.
You often mention French digital and financial sovereignty . Why is it important for Paymium to maintain a market infrastructure in Europe?
It's a question of sovereignty, both for France and for Europe. Having a European market infrastructure is like having Euronext for equities. It is essential for us to be able to access liquidity without depending on foreign third parties.
If tomorrow we were to encounter a problem with our American partners, Europe could find itself in a situation where it could no longer buy bitcoins. The majority of European brokers obtain their supplies from platforms based outside the European Union. If these platforms were to disappear or be blocked for political reasons, Europe would be cut off from access to Bitcoin.
This reminds us of other sectors where Europe has found itself dependent on foreign players, whether for medicines, energy or technology. We don't want to repeat the same mistakes with Bitcoin and digital finance.
For Paymium, maintaining a market infrastructure in France and Europe is essential to guarantee our independence. We don't want Europe to find itself in a situation where it has to ask permission from foreign players to access an asset as fundamental as Bitcoin.
It's also a question of decentralisation. If the Bitcoin market is controlled by just three or four platforms, all based in the same place, then Bitcoin itself loses some of its promise of decentralisation. That's why it's essential to have distributed marketplaces around the world, and particularly in Europe, to ensure the resilience of the Bitcoin network.
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