The Big Whale: 2024 got off to a flying start with the approval of Bitcoin Spot ETFs in the US and a bitcoin that has just topped $50,000. Is this the start of a new cycle?
Jean-Baptiste Graftieaux: I wouldn't get too ahead of myself, even though it's clearly been an excellent start to the year with rising markets and the arrival of ETF Bitcoin Spot . Not everyone realises it, but the arrival of Spot ETFs is a huge change. We're going to see the gradual arrival of traditional players like BlackRock and others.
We work with crypto players who are involved in ETF matters, and clearly the SEC approval has created a positive dynamic, and not just in the US. In Europe, we have new clients, both businesses and individuals, who are interested in cryptos. They have created accounts and invested.
In ten years, the crypto universe has evolved a lot. Is it a good thing that crypto is becoming institutionalised with the arrival of companies from the traditional world?
It's an excellent thing. You can't, on the one hand, want cryptos to be democratised and, on the other, choose who has the right to invest and who doesn't. Clearly, over the last few months, we've seen an influx of companies that need our services. Today, half of Bitstamp's revenue comes from corporate customers.
More fundamentally, the arrival of corporates also helps the market to grow, because they bring liquidity and legitimacy. There's a figure I always like to quote. A few years ago, we were doing 20 million volumes a day, and today we can do up to 100 times that, thanks in particular to institutional clients.
What do you bring to these institutional players?
We have two types of institutional clients. There are B to B (Business to Business) customers. These are market players such as market makers or traders. These customers come to trade on the Bitstamp platform for their own account.
The other institutional customers are B to B to C (Business to Business to Consumer) players who want to use Bitstamp's technology on a white label basis. Instead of developing their own Exchange, they will use our services and allow their customers to invest in crypto-assets. Several banks are interested in these solutions.
What exactly do you provide?
We provide everything, i.e. liquidity, trading, custody, and even, for some customers, operational support on compliance. For traditional companies like banks, this is a huge time saver.
How many customers do you have for this offering?
Today, we have 20 partners around the world using this solution. They include the Stuttgart Stock Exchange, Revolut and Swissquote. In the United States, there are pension funds like B3 Capital. This year, we are going to have at least two partnerships in France.
Who would these partners be? Big banks?
We can't say yet, there are still a few elements to be fixed.
Until a few years ago, the only way to buy crypto was through platforms, but that's no longer the case. Is this a problem for platforms like Bitstamp?
At the risk of surprising you, this is an excellent thing! Firstly because our white label product is of interest to a lot of companies. We have more and more customers who want to be ready for the next Bull Market.
Secondly, because many individuals prefer to invest in cryptos via their bank, so the arrival of financial institutions is a great thing for the market and for all of us.
How do you explain this choice?
There are several reasons. The first is obviously the fact that many investors already have their account with their bank and they don't want to multiply the points of contact. The second, and this is harder for crypto players, is that many individuals have more confidence in their banks than in the platforms, especially since FTX .
Banks and funds are increasingly interested in cryptos. Should platforms, in the other direction, be increasingly interested in traditional assets?
Yes, that's obvious, and in fact that's what we're doing ourselves. For 10 years, we've been offering crypto in Spot, i.e. for cash. Since last year, we have been offering staking and lending. Our customers can invest and lend their cryptos to earn money.
For 2024, we are going to launch a fully regulated derivatives offering. These products will be available in Europe. And with the new licences we are in the process of obtaining, we will also be able to offer assets such as shares, bonds and tokenised products.
What are you going to do about tokenisation?
We want to enable our customers to buy tokenised assets, particularly shares. We've been working on this for nearly two years. It's a real strategic choice for us.
We want to be the first crypto player in Europe with an MTF (Multilateral Trading Facility) licence, which is the equivalent of a traditional stock market licence. We're going to go beyond the crypto framework to broaden our offering. The idea is to offer our customers a new asset class.
One of your key selling points is that you are the most regulated platform in the world. What's in it for you? What's in it for your customers?
In fact, the reason we wanted to be regulated from the outset is that we needed it to have a bank. Today, it's much simpler, we have 18 banking partners around the world to run our business and ensure fiat-to-crypto exchanges. But 10 years ago, it was a different kettle of fish!
In 2024, being as regulated as we are is a real advantage because we are reassuring both our customers and our banking partners. That's why we work with players like Société Générale , the Stuttgart Stock Exchange or Revolut.
70% of your customers (around 4 million) are in Europe. What do you think of the offensive by American platforms in Europe?
The more serious crypto players there are, the better. This pushes us to be even better.
On the real world assets (RWA) , what products are you going to offer?
We're going to tokenise debt, also products linked to the carbon market, and eventually we're aiming for anything to do with real estate and art. Art and real estate look very promising, but there is a real liquidity issue. If it's complicated to sell an asset, then the user experience is not good. For the time being, we're going to focus on the most liquid products.
With Binance's difficulties, there are now no crypto players actively present in all regions of the world. What are your thoughts on this?
The exit from CZ was a smooth one, and Richard Teng, who took over, is a highly respected individual. He's the right person to take up the torch and get Binance back up and running.
What works best today at Bitstamp in terms of products?
Today, the loan is one of the products that works best. We launched this offer last year. You can deposit around ten cryptos on loan with a return of between 2% and 10%. There is total flexibility over the duration of the loan, ranging from a few hours to several months. This is a regulated offer and we already have more than $150 million in loans. This offer will soon be available to institutions.
Many crypto companies are experiencing difficulties. Could you make any acquisitions?
We invested in 2022 in Thalex, which is a derivatives platform. We are very much in demand for takeovers, but at the moment we are mainly investing internally in our own solutions.
Bitstamp is regularly mentioned as a potential target for acquisition. Is this still the case?
We are constantly being approached about a takeover or merger, but this is not currently the case.
Are you profitable?
For 10 years, i.e. between 2011 and 2021, we have been profitable. In 2022, we invested a lot, so we haven't been, but profitability came back in 2023 and we want to accelerate in 2024. I like to remember that the most important thing is what we build: today, Bitstamp has 420 people in around ten countries in Europe, as well as in the United States and Singapore, with millions of customers.
