The Big Whale: What is the current state of tokenisation in France and Europe?
Nadia Filali: We've been talking about tokenisation for almost ten years, but it's taken a long time to emerge. And that's fairly easy to explain: it's a very disruptive technology, which calls into question solidly established financial infrastructures, particularly in the banking and post-trade world.
These systems are already very well organised, often optimised in STP (Straight Through Processing ), with heavy investments made over the years on platforms like Target2 (European project to concentrate European post-trade infrastructures, ndlr ). So it's not easy to get the lines moving.
That said, milestones have been set. In France, the 2019 Pacte law was an important step. At Caisse des Dépôts, we launched an initiative back in 2016, long before the word "tokenisation" was commonly used. It was probably a bit early, but it already showed our willingness to explore these avenues.
Then the MiCA regulation came along; it's not a pure tokenisation text, but it still helped to structure things, particularly on stablecoins and means of payment on market infrastructures.
For the last eighteen months, we've felt a real acceleration. Places like Singapore and Hong Kong are taking the subject head on, with initiatives like the Guardian project. Even Europe, and the ECB, have decided to speed things up. All this shows that tokenisation is going to move to another scale and become industrialised, even if the transition will be long.
When you say that the transition will be long, what timeframe are you thinking of?
I'm talking about a transition that will take place over 5 to 10 years. There's still a real gap to fill. We've had phases of experimentation, interesting live pilots, but going to scale requires real industrial transformations.
This involves organisational transitions, changes in processes, governance, investment. It's not just a technical issue, it's a question of the overall maturity of the ecosystem. Everyone needs to be aligned.
What is actually holding back this move to scale?
A very telling example: the European pilot scheme. It was a major step forward, but in practice it is still too limited. Volumes are limited, outstandings capped and transactions still too restricted.
The pilot scheme is an excellent sandbox , but it is too small for institutional players to be able to project themselves seriously into it. What's needed now is to make this sandbox bigger and open up the playing field.
This will involve increasing authorised volumes, but also clarifying the means of settlement that can be used. Today, we are often forced to imagine all this with a central bank digital currency (digital euro), whereas in some countries, such as Hong Kong, we are already testing approaches with commercial currencies or interbank structures. We need to make faster progress on stablecoins in Europe.
What do you see as the most obvious use cases?
Just stablecoins. When you look at volumes, it's clear that they are crushing everything in tokenisation. It's clearly the use case that has come to the fore, not least because it addresses a real settlement issue.
But we mustn't overlook the potential of the bond world, which has been our historical entry point at Caisse des Dépôts. It's still an imperfect field, with many frictions, and one in which tokenisation can bring real gains. I also see it as a lever for financing innovative companies, which is strategic for Europe's economic future.
On the other hand, with listed shares, the challenge is greater because the system is already relatively efficient. Adding value is more difficult. The objective is really to convince operational staff, to show them how tokenisation brings concrete value to their processes.
Can we imagine tokenisation helping to unify the European market?
That's an interesting objective, but we shouldn't dream: today, the rules still vary too much from one country to another. The regulatory frameworks already need to be harmonised.
When the French Pacte Act came into force in 2019, it was because we were outside the scope of European law, which allowed for experimentation. But to build a unified market, we need to work with ESMA, the Commission and national regulators. That said, in a tense geopolitical context, it is clear that diversification is becoming strategic. And if we work intelligently, we can make the tokenised euro a truly attractive alternative for investors.
Justly, while we wait for the ECB's digital euro, should we support the development of private euro stablecoins?
I think there is a credible route around interbank stablecoins (wholesale , ndlr ). The idea is not necessarily to have a stablecoin issued by a single entity, but to create a common tool, carried by several commercial banks. In any case, we need euro stablecoins.
And perhaps, for this to work, we need to move away from a logic of sterile competition. The French banking sector was already able to unite 40 years ago to create the Groupement Carte Bancaire. We should be able to be just as bold today.
Caisse des Dépôts: can it play a driving role in this dynamic?
We have already launched initiatives along these lines. Between 2017 and 2022, we set up a dedicated structure, perhaps a little too early. In November 2024, we conducted a tokenised issue, involving several of the Group's business lines.
In parallel, we lead a strategic working group within the Grand Public Financial Hub (GPFP), partnering with La Banque Postale, La Banque Postale AM, SFIL and Bpifrance. And we have announced our intention to launch a Tokenisation Institute, bringing together banks, start-ups and research centres. We think it's essential to go beyond simply coordinating the ecosystem to take action.
What do you see as the most promising projects today?
There are several. Spiko is obviously a major player , as is Fever Token, which has worked with the Banque du Liban.
On the institutional side, SG-Forge (Société Générale's crypto subsidiary) has taken a real lead, but we could also mention Crédit Agricole CIB or Natixis.
On the infrastructure side, Euroclear continues to make progress, Santander is active in Europe, etc. And we have more recent players, such as 21X in Germany, who are exploring other models.
In France, then, we have both the incumbents who are going from strength to strength and some interesting newcomers. What we need now is for all these players to work together more closely.
And the pilot scheme, why has it attracted so few players in France?
It's a useful tool, but as I said, it's still too restrictive. In fact, we haven't used this system for our broadcasts. What we need is to make the framework more flexible: not to abandon it, but to broaden it. We need to allow greater flexibility while retaining clear and consistent rules. And that is the role of the regulator - ESMA in the first instance.
What interests you most about tokenisation?
Tokenisation is a profoundly transformative subject. I discovered blockchain in 2016, and my first instinct was to think in terms of front-to-back : how to simplify, eliminate duplication, make processes more fluid.
You shouldn't approach this subject by trying to reproduce the existing system. That would be to miss out on all that these technologies have to offer. We need to be bold enough to think differently, because if other parts of the world move faster, we'll be forced to follow. We might as well think ahead, with our own values, our own models and our own sovereignty.
It's a good thing that we're doing so.
