The Big Whale: Can you explain what Gnosis Pay does for those who aren't too familiar?
Deep Shah: Gnosis Pay was designed to be a bank account on the blockchain. It's like your current account: you can deposit money into it, and there's an IBAN that allows you to do that via Revolut or any other bank.
We also have the Gnosis Pay card, which is a debit card. You can spend your stablecoins anywhere Visa is accepted, which is pretty much everywhere. You can also make bank transfers to your friends or family via Gnosis Pay.
What's the advantage of having a bank account on the blockchain?
The advantage is that it's faster, more efficient, and gives you all the benefits of the blockchain. Our aim is to make it a product where users don't have to change their existing habits.
They don't have to think about recovery phrases or 500 different Web3 concepts. We want them to have a simple neobanking experience, but with the benefits of blockchain.
How many users do you currently have?
Gnosis Pay is now just over a year old. We have around 20,000 people on the waiting list worldwide. We are available in around 35 countries. In terms of active users, we have just over 6,000 users who have the cards and are using them, and that figure is growing all the time.
What is the geographical breakdown of these users?
France accounts for around 20% of our users, making it our biggest market. Then there's Germany and the UK.
For the moment, we're clearly focused on the European Union, with the UK and Switzerland. But we want to expand into other regions of the world, including Singapore.
How are you managing the launch in new countries? Do you have local partners?
We have an agreement with Visa that allows us to issue cards, so we don't need local partners at the moment. But as we grow, we obviously plan to have local partners and work with different players.
For now, we're testing our value proposition and making sure everything works well. When demand increases, we will attack many more markets.
Let's talk a bit about the functionalities. In addition to the deposit account and payments, do you plan to offer lending services?
This is indeed in the pipeline. One big difference between a traditional bank and Gnosis Pay is that with us, you are your own bank: you keep control of your funds, but above all, you don't have to take your bank's products.
You can use all the lending products available on Aave , Spark, Compound, and others. One great option is that your Gnosis Pay account can be funded directly via Aave or Compound.
How many people work at Gnosis Pay?
There are just over 20 of us working on Gnosis Pay, and we also benefit from the help of some who work on the Gnosis blockchain.
Currently, you are on the Gnosis blockchain. Do you plan to be available on other blockchains?
Our vision is to use the Gnosis blockchain as a settlement layer. We will always settle on Gnosis because it is optimised for financial infrastructure and repayments. But, on the rest, you'll be able to use any other EVM (Ethereum Virtual Machine) compatible blockchain that has the Gnosis Pay vault.
Our vision is simple: eventually, users will be transacting in crypto without even knowing which blockchain they're on. Whether it's Ethereum, Bitcoin, Solana or Gnosis, all they'll know is that they've created an account that allows them to manage cryptos.
When it comes to stablecoins, when are you going to accept USDC or other stablecoins?
Good question! We will soon be accepting the dollar with the USDC . We're also in discussions for a deeper partnership, not just with Gnosis Pay, but with the Gnosis blockchain in general.
Currently, we work with stablecoins regulated by MiCA (Markets in Crypto-Assets). At the moment, we support two stablecoins: the EUROe for Europe and the GBPE for the UK (Monerium).
The next feature we're going to launch is multi-currency cards that will allow you to pay in USD abroad.
A lot of what you describe about Gnosis Pay is reminiscent of players like Revolut and N26. What differences do you see beyond the fact that these companies are not based on blockchain?
The key difference is obviously blockchain, but above all the fact that using blockchain, i.e. an open infrastructure, allows innovation without permission. A Gnosis Pay user can integrate DeFi products like Aave into the platform without anyone stopping them. Try using a product on Revolut that is not authorised on Revolut!
With blockchain, we can really disrupt payments and money transfers with a system that is 24/24, 365 days a year, instantaneous, and much cheaper than a Revolut transfer abroad.
Revolut and other players are working on implementations of blockchain services. Isn't that a threat?
Of course, and it's a very good thing that they are, but that's where our expertise comes in. We're veterans in this field and we know how to use technology in the best possible way.
What's your strategy for attracting more customers?
Our main objective is to continue to grow through word of mouth, which is our major and above all healthiest source of growth. We want our customers to recruit new customers, that's the most virtuous thing.
We've also seen a lot of interest in our "OG" NFT. This has been given to all early adopters; it offers them special benefits. OG" NFTs can no longer be mined, but users can earn them by referring new users. Notably, this NFT earns an additional 1% cashback.
Speaking of cashback, we recently launched a Gnosis DAO-funded programme that allows users to earn up to 5% cashback on a debit card. This is unprecedented, especially compared to traditional Web2 products.
What are you doing on the business side?
We're mainly focusing on integration with wallets like Metri or Zerion. These platforms want to become banks and enable their users, who often have significant assets, to spend them seamlessly.
Why should a bank or fintech work with Gnosis Pay?
We're seeing a lot of interest from traditional banks that want to integrate Gnosis Pay to move onto blockchain and take advantage of its benefits, such as availability and speed. These banks need an expert in this field, and Gnosis Pay is one.
Our technology can communicate directly with Visa and with traditional Web2 systems while retaining the power of Web3. We're perfectly positioned to help banks with this transition.
You have a card, but do you think we'll still be using cards rather than just smartphones in the future?
It's hard to predict how cards will evolve, but we're convinced we'll always need them, whether they're physical or digital, i.e. tokenised. Soon you'll be able to tokenise your card and put it on your phone.
Of course we have tokenisation of our card. In the next few months, we should be able to offer virtual cards with integrations into Apple Pay and Google Pay.
How do you see the role of Gnosis Pay in the coming years?
I like to compare us to Android. Just as Android is available on other phones, I think Gnosis Pay will be available in other banks.
